Replace your muffler with a turbo charger???

[S2k Dude]

Yes, it's true. A company called STS Turbo (www.ststurbo.com (http://www.ststurbo.com/)) has figured out a new location to mount a turbo charger:

http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/IMG_1362small_ezr.JPG

Claimed benifits:

Ease of installation. STS turbo systems can be installed in 4-6 hours with standard tools and average mechanical ability.

Performance Sound. The turbo acts as a muffler and sounds like an aftermarket performance muffler. Turbo spool and rushing air from the blow-off valve make a unique sound that will turn heads!

No need for major modifications to your vehicle. STS systems are designed to bolt on using factory mounts without cutting or modifying your vehicle.

Increased gas mileage. Unlike a belt driven supercharger, the turbo utilizes "wasted" energy leaving your tailpipe. Most of our customers get 2-4 mpg increase in gas mileage.

Lower underhood temperatures. No need to worry about melting wires, hoses, or other components.

Easily converts back to stock in less than an hour.

More room under the hood. Future repair work or modifications will not require the expense of removing the turbo system to allow access to any of the engine components.

Cooler oil to the turbo. Cool oil is better for both the turbo and engine.

Approximately 500F lower turbo temperatures. Eliminates the need for a turbo-timer, which allows the engine to run after the car is shut off in order to cool down the turbo and prevent oil and bearing damage.

Denser exhaust gasses drive the turbo turbine wheel more efficiently.

Built-in intercooling. Intake piping provides ~50% intercooler efficiency. There is no need for the expense, pressure drop, and installation problems associated with a front mounted intercooler.

Turbo is exposed to ambient air rather than underhood air. Allows for better cooling of turbo components.

No need for expensive headers, mufflers, or exhaust systems.

Turbo is closer to the tail pipe outlet. Provides a better pressure differential across the turbine wheel which promotes better flow across turbine.

Better weight transfer. Increases traction because the bulk of system is mounted in rear of vehicle rather than up front.

Less noise in the passenger compartment.

Quieter wastegates, especially if vented to atmosphere.

Better engine cooling capacity.
I'd at least have to say it's an inventive idea!

[WebGod]

WTH?

[s2kjones]

WTH?
I agree!! Look where the intake is...right behind the rear tire. That would cause a lot of tire smoke to enter the engine, in my case

[Aaron]

saw this some months back --- as I recall, they were focusing on V8s at the time

[CDjunkie]

Beware of potholes and standing water!

[Aaron]

think the focus was on trucks too

[Aaron]

Available Turbo Systems

All patented (javascript:ezPOpen('patent');)STS(tm) turbo systems start at 5 psi of boost, but can be upgraded with tuning and turbo upgrades to run up to 20 psi of boost.


LT1 Camaro/Trans-Am (javascript:ezPOpen('lt1_camaro_kits');)
LS1 Camaro/Trans-Am (javascript:ezPOpen('ls1_camaro_kits');)
Chevrolet/GMC/Cadillac Trucks (javascript:ezPOpen('gm_truck_kits');)
Chevrolet/GMC/Cadillac SUVs (javascript:ezPOpen('gm_suv_systems');)
Toyota Tundra (javascript:ezPOpen('tundra_4_7l_kits');)
Toyota Tacoma (javascript:ezPOpen('tacoma_3_4l_kits');)
Upcoming products...


Dodge RAM 1500 Hemi (javascript:ezPOpen('dodge_ram_1500');)
Pontiac GTO (javascript:ezPOpen('pontiac_gto');)
Acura Integra / Honda Civic (javascript:ezPOpen('acura___honda');)

[s2kjones]

I didn't think that it was real...then I found this http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0411phr_sts/

[CDjunkie]

I'm sticking with the Turbonator!

[S2k Dude]

Yes, someone at work who saw the article in Popular Hot Rodding brought this to my attention. Check out the info on the upcoming Integra:

"At (an altitude of) 4300 ft. this car ran the 1/8th mile at 94 mph, at which point the driver backed out and still finished the 1/4 mile in 13.1 seconds at 95 mph." :eek:

[Johnyboy]

I'm sticking with the Turbonator!

:rolf: :laugh:

[Aaron]

when i saw it, they had no plans for compacts -- guess the market was to big to ignore

now who's going to be the "test fitter" for the S2000?

[s2kjones]

when i saw it, they had no plans for compacts -- guess the market was to big to ignore

now who's going to be the "test fitter" for the S2000?
Not me. I think it's a bad idea to have high pressure oil lines running all the way to the back of the car. I don't like where the intake is located. It would be fun to see though

[Cyclon36]

I think if the intake was routed a bit forward or higher that it wouldn't be a bad idea. I tell you guys what, I'll be more than happy to try it if someone else fronts the bill.:D

[noclue119]

Wow Is all i have to say

Turbo -> IC -> intake manifold piping too long... which = turbo lag.
Turbo should be infront of the cats not behind it because cat slows/cools down airflow which = less boost at a given RPM. *umm no cats = illegal = CEL = failed inspection"
Intake in going to suck up dirt, debri and water.
Turbo is not heat shielded.

Your fuel tank is above the turbo... Heat + Fuel = :nono:
4b. Your bumper paint is going ot get messed up without the heat shield

Turbo is too easily damaged by rock from the tires..
Most importantly. You have to run your oil feed line and oil return line from the front of the car all the way to the back so you don't fry your turbo.
Also he says that you don't need a intercooler, if the turbo -> Intake manifold is right by the exhaust pipe, you need a intercooler or else hello pinging.
*ops 6 is already mentioned*

[Cyclon36]

Wow Is all i have to say

1. Turbo -> IC -> intake manifold piping too long... which = turbo lag.
2. Turbo should be infront of the cats not behind it because cat slows/cools down airflow which = less boost at a given RPM. *umm no cats = illegal = CEL = failed inspection"
3. Intake in going to suck up dirt, debri and water.
4. Turbo is not heat shielded.
4a. Your fuel tank is above the turbo... Heat + Fuel = :nono:
4b. Your bumper paint is going ot get messed up without the heat shield
5. Turbo is too easily damaged by rock from the tires..
6. Most importantly. You have to run your oil feed line and oil return line from the front of the car all the way to the back so you don't fry your turbo.

*ops 6 is already mentioned*I don't think 3-4b is a big issue. I doubt it would get substantially hotter than just the muffler being there which is pretty darn hot by itself without causing fuel/melting problems.

Undercarriage shielding would definitely have to be considered to avoid damage to the turbo, but an easy fix.

True, there would be more lag than a standard turbo, but I guess for the tuning savings some would think it was worth it.

The air is denser at the end of the exhaust cycle so you don't get as much pressure, but you could easily compensate with a larger boost kit.

The big problem is of course the oil lines, but If they engineered their product a little more, they might be able to come up with an indipendent oil supply. I would imagine that it would be cooler than using the engines oil anyway.

Is it as good as a standard turbo? Well I'd probably say definitely not, but I can see how it could be alot easier to accomplish and for less money. I think with some right engineering and if they would tidy up the finished look, it could be a popular product depending on the price.

[Cyclon36]

Actually, after visiting their site, it appears that they do have some sort of oiling solution already in place so you don't have to tap the engine.

[s2kjones]

Actually, after visiting their site, it appears that they do have some sort of oiling solution already in place so you don't have to tap the engine.
There you go! Do it!! Buy one...I want to see it. Then you could put an over priced muffler tip on it :D

[Cyclon36]

I was wrong about not tapping the engine for oil, but here are some "official" responses to the other questions:

With the turbo so far back, don't you get a lot of turbo lag?
No, our turbochargers are sized to operate at this remote location. Just like any turbocharger, once the turbo is up to temperature and in the rpm range for which it was designed to operate. The boost comes on hard and fast. All of our systems will produce full boost below 3000 rpm.

If you were to take a conventional turbo and place it at the rear, you would have lots of lag and consequently, our turbo wouldn't work properly if mounted up front.

Doesn't water get into your engine with the filter mounted down low?
No, even under very wet conditions the filter sheds most all water. Every kit includes a K&N PreCharger which is a "sock" that protects the filter under very dusty or wet conditions. The only thing you don't want to do is completely submerge the filter. This would draw water through the filter and into the intake tubing. For most vehicles that would mean you would have water coming in your doors before you'd have a problem with the turbo's air filter.

How long does it really take to install your system?
Average install times are 4-6 hours for first timers. Our install techs usually spend 3-4 hours for a typical install.

With so long of intake and exhaust tubes, doesn't it take a while for the boost to build up?
No, our intake tubing volume is about the same as most conventional turbo setups that are running a front mounted intercooler, and less than many of them that run large intercoolers. We aren't talking about a small compressor filling up a large air tank, we are talking about a huge compressor filling up a very small volume which only takes a fraction of a second. Our systems compress the intake tubing in about .05 seconds. So much for turbo lag...

How is the turbo lubricated?
Our system uses the engine's pressurized oiling system to supply the turbocharger. This pressurized oil travels approximately 12 feet through tubing which dissipates heat out of the oil just like an oil cooler to provide cool oil to the turbocharger. The oil is then scavenged from the turbocharger via an electric oil pump which returns the oil to the engines valve cover through another long length of tubing which again cools down the turbo-heated oil before entering the engine.

With the turbo located under the fuel tank on the Camaro, doesn't it heat up the fuel?
We have done temperature testing on this issue and found that the factory heat shield does a great job of preventing the transfer of heat into the fuel tank. The temperature of the air on top of the heat shield only rose about 15F higher than ambient temperature with a full boost run. The only time you might see an increase in actual fuel temperature would be during extensive stationary dyno testing when there isn't any substantial airflow around the turbocharger and rear of the car. We recommend running a full tank of gas for any dyno testing.

[s2kjones]

There you go! Do it!! Buy one...I want to see it. Then you could put an over priced muffler tip on it :D
....

[Cyclon36]

There you go! Do it!! Buy one...I want to see it. Then you could put an over priced muffler tip on it :D
Nah, it still costs too much.

BTW, my Remus tips aren't dead yet! No making fun of the super custom dual quads!

[noclue119]

if anyone called the turbo sound a Performance Sound, we got issues. Its as about as cool as http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7930801176&category=33633

Increased gas mileage. - No way in hell is it going to add mile per gallon to your car when you have additional back pressure in the exhaust. plus, if you don't have a piggyback system managing your fuel and timing, kiss your engine good bye. You can't just slap on a turbo and expect it to make 100 hp. you still ahve to tune the ecu to add additional fuel when needed. Most likely it will decrease your fuel effienecy at full boost.

Approximately 500F lower turbo temperatures. - all garret turbos are required to do 500 hard shut downs and not break due to the oil soildifying.

Turbo is closer to the tail pipe outlet. Provides a better pressure differential across the turbine wheel which promotes better flow across turbine. - wtf as air cools down, the pressure differential decreases creating a slower moving gas and so its better to put the turbo as close to the exhaust as possible.

Quieter wastegates, especially if vented to atmosphere. - Its not the wastegate that makes the sound its the BOV/BPV. BPV/BOV resides usually off the pipe that leads to the intake manifold and only works when there is a pressure -> vac switch in the pipe to allow excess pressure which unused boosted air in the piple to escape. Wastegates' job is to prevent over boost. Please tell me how wastegates can vent the the atmosphere and make a sound?

[s2kjones]

Quieter wastegates, especially if vented to atmosphere. - Its not the wastegate that makes the sound its the BOV/BPV. BPV/BOV resides usually off the pipe that leads to the intake manifold and only works when there is a pressure -> vac switch in the pipe to allow excess pressure which unused boosted air in the piple to escape. Wastegates' job is to prevent over boost. Please tell me how wastegates can vent the the atmosphere and make a sound?
Wastegates do make sounds. It sounds like a crack of lightning. It's venting the back pressure off of the exhaust. It sounds like the car is backfiring.

[s2kjones]

Nah, it still costs too much.

BTW, my Remus tips aren't dead yet! No making fun of the super custom dual quads!
Sorry I couldn't resist:D

[noclue119]

Someone had a great idea of not using an intercooler but u'll be paying more for the repair bills later on. Just use a conventional turbo/supercharger

[noclue119]

Wastegates do make sounds. It sounds like a crack of lightning. It's venting the back pressure off of the exhaust. It sounds like the car is backfiring.
What???? the wastegate is used to control overboost. it opens as preset psi and vent out the additional exhaust. if you are talkig about the sound of the metal on metal contact yes, its every faint and usually drowned out by the turbo spooling. but the blow off valve is what vents to the atomosphere

[Cyclon36]

if anyone called the turbo sound a Performance Sound, we got issues. Its as about as cool as http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7930801176&category=33633
That's one thing I doubted myself. I'm not so sure that a "turbo sound" would be something I want coming from the tailpipe.

I think some of things that they come out with are pure long grain enriched rice! I would love to see the civic guy that buys that whistler thing for his ride.:rolf:

[noclue119]

:)

[s2kjones]

What???? the wastegate is used to control overboost. it opens as preset psi and vent out the additional exhaust. if you are talkig about the sound of the metal on metal contact yes, its every faint and usually drowned out by the turbo spooling. but the blow off valve is what vents to the atomosphereI've seen wastegates that vent to atmosphere too. Usually they are set up to dump into the exhaust downstream of the turbo, but before the cat(for emission issues). Dumping a wastegate to atmosphere usuallywill show a flame about four feet long coming from the pipe. It is very loud

[Aaron]

i wanted flame out of my pipes.......but then I'd be a flamer so I decided against it

[s2kjones]

i wanted flame out of my pipes.......but then I'd be a flamer so I decided against it
Too late :D

You can get flames...Purchase a test pipe that removes the cat. Bounce off the rev limiter...flames will shoot out the exhaust :goodjob:

[Aaron]

OR i just get a simple electrical mod that sparks at the tailpipe, thereby lighting any unspent gases in the exhuast fumes

http://www.flamingexhaust.com/

[s2kjones]

OR i just get a simple electrical mod that sparks at the tailpipe, thereby lighting any unspent gases in the exhuast fumes

http://www.flamingexhaust.com/
The car needs to be running pretty rich for that to work properly. ...Maybe if it had propane injected into the exhaust it would work better.

Screw performance mods...this is where it's at :goodjob: